It seems that Deborah Kitchell came back for more. Â I know, it’s useless to argue with them, as facts mean nothing to them, but it’s sometimes good to keep ones skills sharp, and watching them spin reality is kinda fun, so here we go with Deborah’s response to my post…
I never said that the Tea Party were terrorists or extremists on par with the EXTREME far right groups like the American Nazi Party, KKK, et al. You are absolutely correct that totalitarian movements whether left (communist) and right (fascist) have been responsible for more than 200 million deaths world wide, but I was referring to right and left movements HERE in the U.S. and KKK lynchings, union worker deaths, random murders of government workers (McVie example) are more numerous. In terms of facts, I am not sure a right-wing blogs entitled The Jawa Report, Pundit Press, and OWS Exposed are the most reliable source for statistics on the antics of Occupiers, but given that it is/was predominately a youth movement compared to Tea Partiers which tend to be a middle-aged to senior movement, I donât doubt that when young males get excited, they do stupid things that get exaggerated by the right. However, the Occupy protests I attended in my small city (as were most nation-wide) were peaceful, VERY respectful to police and non-theatrical. I do recall viewing actual scenes of Tea Partiers hurling racial epithets at Congressmen/women, carrying guns to protests, and stupidly, but proudly displaying posters of your president awash in swatikas and Hitleresque mustaches. Again, given the typical age of Tea Party types, I have no doubt that their large protests were more subdued compared to the large protests of the youthful Occupiers.
Ok then. Let’s take a look at the first paragraph.
1. Â The American Nazi Part is extreme right wing, is it? Â Here is something right from their own platform…
We demand the creation of an honest, self-sufficient, debt-free economy based solely on the productive capacity of the Aryan worker, which will guarantee conditions of full employment and price stability. We also demand public control of all banking and credit institutions as well as all utilities and all monopolies, confiscation of all conglomerate holdings, cancellation of all usurious debt, comprehensive profit sharing in all basic industries, and the institution of a national program of interest-free loans for families, farmers, and small businessmen.
We believe that the proper function of an economy is to serve the economic needs of the people, not to make profits for big bankers and huge multinational corporations. We must put an end to both economic freeloading and economic exploitation in America. There must be no place for parasites who draw their sustenance from society without giving anything in return. We also believe that HONEST WORK is the only legitimate basis for wealth - not speculation, usury, or money-manipulation - and that a sound economic system must rest, not on debt or some extraneous metal, but on the productivity of the Aryan worker alone. We believe further, that money is properly a medium of exchange and store of value, not a commodity like bread or steel, and that therefore money and credit should not be issued for profit, but to serve the legitimate needs of the people without interest. Finally, we believe that it is unnecessary for any rational society to suffer unemployment when there is work to be done and people who want jobs. We must have an economy based on the long-term interests of the man who works for a living, not the chronic loafer or the man who lives by renting out his capital.
Yes folks, this is a so called right wing movement. Â This could come right from an occupod!
2. Â And of the KKK, it seems that David Duke, their former leader, came out in support of the occupy movement!
3. Â As for the reliability of the reports on occupy violence, this blog was one of many that covered the deaths, the rapes, the illegal activities, and the like. Â We took the information from local media reports. Â It is reliable, unless the deaths did not occur, and the local media, coroners, police, EMT’s, and everyone else lied about it. But, since we areÂ exaggeratingÂ it, I guess all the videos, posts, local media reports, are all bunk. Â After all, Deborah said so.
4. Â According to Mussolini, fascism is “socialism for one state.” Â I guess socialism is right wing?
5. Â Â I do recall viewing actual scenes of Tea Partiers hurling racial epithets at Congressmen/women, carrying guns to protests, and stupidly, but proudly displaying posters of your president awash in swatikas and Hitleresque mustaches.
Might you share the links to that? Â I mean video of racial slurs towards congressmen. Â As the saying goes, a picture is worth a thousand words. Â And, in the case of video, footage is worth a million words.
Why is it wrong to open carry where it is legal? Â And, with all of those “bitter clingers,” was one single person shot? Â With us being terriblly violent and dangerous, surely at least a dozen people were shot, right?
And for the Hitler signs, Was it eqaully wrong when leftist protesters did the same to Bush…
Frankly, it’s free speech.
Now, for the next.
In terms of your comments about thugs, I will also have you know that I have relatives that were coal miners in WV during the strikes in the 1930s and 40s and they were not thugs beating people upâthey were hard working but grossly exploited working people fighting coal company thugs, goons (Pinkerton men included) for THEIR RIGHTS as workers. Now, with coal companies writing legislation regulating the enforcement of worker violations, we are now seeing black lung AGAIN and horrible mining accidents with death tolls not seen in 30 years. Do you really trust the ultimate goals of private corporations (making money) over the government (providing for the common good)? Adam Smith said that unbridled capitalism only works with ethical business practitionersâthat has never been the case and certainly isnât today. Government does not regulate in a vacuumâit regulates when abuses in the private sector takes place and is needed to protect the public. But, I digressâ¦
I had family member that were union members as well. Â I was told stories about elections, and how the union enforcers were at the site. Â Anyone that showed any indication of disobeying the union bosses were instantly taken out and beaten. Â And as for now, unions aren’t thugs, are they?
Yes, there are more videos-dozens more. Â Union violence is nothing new, and thanks to the alternative media, more and more people are finding out about it. Â And we’ll continue to show the evidence.
Oh, and by the way, the companies that my grandparents worked for no longer exist. Â It seems that the unions made it impossible to operate.
You know what bothers me, these arguments between those who more closely identify with the Occupy or the Tea Party Movement is exactly what those with the power want. You guys do seem to âgetâ crony capitalism at work in this country and it is exactly that kind of corporate ownership of this country that those of the left ALSO despise. As long Americans fail to reasonably look for common ground on both side of an issue and infect the public discourse with venomâthe plutocracy which is taking in this great country of ours (if it already hasnât occurred!) will win. Its an old story going back hundreds of years (thousands if looked at somewhat differently): divide and conquerâpit the middle class against the poor.
You are correct that crony capitalism exists, and the more power that government gives itself to regulate it, the worse it becomes. Â Large corporations become larger and more powerful in a high regulatory environment. Â The cause is simple; the large and highly capitalized corporation can afford to absorb the increased costs of taxes, labor, and regulations because they sell more stuff, and can spread the increased costs out more effectively per unit. Â The small company cannot afford to do so very easily, so they are eventually crushed under the pressure, leaving the big guys in control. Â It’s because of the regulations and influence that the market has become so distorted. Â CronyÂ capitalismÂ exists because government gave itself the power to regulate and pick the winners and losers. Â So, theÂ corporationsÂ come with their money and influence to channel that regulatory power to their own favor.
It isn’t about the middle vs the poor. Â It’s about the state, and it’s cronies, against all of us. Â The state’s main mission the theÂ accumulationÂ and preservation of power. Â In fact, the pressure against the middle class comes from government, in the form of taxes, regulations, and attacks on selfÂ sufficiency. Â Taxes take money out of the pockets of those that produce, and wastes most of it before it ever get’s spent on anything meaningful. Â Regulations kill jobs, lowering the standards of living for those that have lost jobs, and causes far fewer jobs to be created, decreasing the chances of people to even get to the middle class. Â Then, people end up being trapped in government programs that punish success and reward failure.
The poor serve as an important power bloc for the left. Â Regulations and taxes kill jobs, trapping people in poverty. Â Government programs penalize people who try and work, so they discourage people from trying. Â After spending billions on education, their programs chronicallyÂ under-educateÂ the poor, and a steady stream of leftist propaganda convinces millions that they cannot survive off the government plantation. Â Then, they are convinced that successful people are the cause of their misery-that the evil rich Â have somehow stolen their wealth, and seek to deprive them of even more. Â The state uses the poor to advance the class warfare narrative, and keep them in poverty to help maintain their own power.
And now for the next paragraph…
It is not Marxism or any other political theory of the left you have to be afraid of. It is the effects of an economic theory being touted as political theory: unbridled capitalism. Remember, we had until the 80s struck a solid balace between capitalism and socialism giving us the rise of the most affluent middle class in history (1947-1979) and it was done with tax rates on the wealthy that exceeded 80%! (and fewer tax loopholes!) But, whatever. I suspect you are likely an ideologue not interested in what is really ruining this country. It was the greed of selfish bankers and Wall Street corporate moguls that sank us in 2008 and be assured, will do it again! But, if you tout the typical Tea Party line, just believe it is those wine sipping. latte drooling socialistic bleeding heart liberals (by the way, Iâm from a family that lived the most socialistic life ever: the US Military!) and lazy poor people that catapulted this country and the world into financial oblivion. Thatâs EXACTLY WHAT WALL STREET and their tools at CSNBC, Fox News, the Wall Street Journal, et al WANTS YOU TO THINK! For me, given the feckless Democrats and downright mean Republicans, this country is in real trouble. We need a strong leader like the Roosevelts to stand up to Wall Street and break up the big banks and devise new programs to help average Americans, an Eisenhower to stand up to the military industrial security complex, and the OLD John McCain to foster REAL campaign finance reform. I will hold my nose like I do every election year I can remember and vote for Obama, but I do not see ANY leader on either side of the political spectrum, save possibly Elizabeth Warren who has the guts to stand up for the middle class in this country. Rant overâ¦
Wow, there is a lot in this one. Â First, we haven’t had unbridled capitalism since probably the 19th century. Â Even since, government has interfered with it more and more, and increasing the problems incrementally.
Prior to the election of Reagan, we had…
1. Â Double digit inflation.
2. Â Double digit unemployment.
3. Â Double digit interest rates.
That’s quite a balance Deborah.
Oh, and by the way, remember how the economy did after Kennedy cut taxes?
But, whatever. I suspect you are likely an ideologue not interested in what is really ruining this country.Â
Projecting much? Â I’ve read history, and I know what isÂ ruiningÂ this country-the government. Â You seem to want to throw gasoline on that fire. Â You can’t change reality-no matter how hard you try.
Roosevelt made the Great Depression worse, not better. Â Remember that if Obama passed the Porkulus, that unemployment wouldn’t go over 7%? Â We all know how that worked out.
And then, she goes of on a series of talking points, followed up by support for a woman who keeps lying about her ethnicity. Â That, of course, has offended the Cherokees, but what they heck, she preaches the class warfare line better than most.
Here are some quick observations on the rest:
1. Â ”military industrial security complex”Â If she is referring to the police state, I agree. Â The Patriot act has to go. Â No government should be given that much power.
2. Â ”REAL Campaign finance reform,” which will ensure that the unions continue to dominate the campaigns, as they will be exempted. Â Let’s take a look at where those evil Koch Brothers stack up…
And hey, let’s just look at the rest, just to be sure…
3. Â Elizabeth Warren is as great an enemy to the middle class as any closet Marxist. Â There won’t be a middle class with people like her, and Obama, in power.
Sorry Deborah, there can be no middle ground. Â We will either be free, or be slaves, and I’m not quite ready to live on the government plantation.
And finally, I will end this post as I do with so many dissections. Â For Deborah’s sake, here is a video from Yuri Bezmenov, the highest ranking KGB officer to defect to the West. Â He predicted Deborah’s reactions and talking pointsÂ approximatelyÂ 30 years ago.
And no, she won’t get it because she isn’t supposed to.